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2019-2020 Clarkson Men's Hockey

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  • Originally posted by cutothefrozen4 View Post

    You’ve seen where Union plays right, it’s cliche but it they can produce a team like that, Clarkson puts plenty of resources into hockey and could as well. We also have a more then generous alumni/supporters base that allows us to close the gap. If D1 Hockey was all about resources there’d be 5 rotating champions, BC, BU, Michigan, North Dakota, Wisconsin. The only think you can do is give yourself a chance and get into the dance. We will be doing that for a 3rd straight year this season, with the EZAC back in full force we are in good shape going forward and recruiting at a high level. I’m not saying we will win one, but I’m sick of hearing excuses as to why we can’t.
    Union was only as good as it was because Nate Lehman is an exceptional coach. He now coaches at Providence I am sure he gets paid far more than he ever got paid at Union. The 2013–14 team was still mostly composed of Lehman-era players. Since then, Union has had one good season and they typically finish in the bottom half of the ECAC (frequently not even getting home ice in the first round).

    I have discussed this in the past when addressing complaints about WCKN, but I’ll bring it up again here. Clarkson has a tiny endowment by non-Ivy ECAC standards. In fact, theirs is the smallest in the ECAC. I think most Atlantic Hockey schools get more money in endowment per year than Clarkson. In a way, the fact that the team isn’t a perennial cellar-dweller is a minor miracle. As fans, though, I get that it is frustrating. We have made just one Frozen Four in 50 years.
    Last edited by Hydra88; 03-01-2020, 04:55 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Hydra88 View Post

      Union was only as good as it was because Nate Lehman is an exceptional coach. He now coaches at Providence I am sure he gets paid far more than he ever got paid at Union. The 2013–14 team was still mostly composed of Lehman-era players. Since then, Union has had one good season and they typically finish in the bottom half of the ECAC (frequently not even getting home ice in the first round).

      I have discussed this in the past when addressing complaints about WCKN, but I’ll bring it up again here. Clarkson has a tiny endowment by non-Ivy ECAC standards. In fact theirs is the smallest in the ECAC. I think most Atlantic Hockey schools get more money in endowment per year than Clarkson. In a way, the fact that the team isn’t a perennial cellar-dweller isn’t a minor miracle. As fans, though, I get that it is frustrating. We have made just one Frozen Four in 50 years.
      I don’t care about where Union is now or who got them there, I know the story, my point was that team was deserving of the National Championship, Clarkson is nowhere near that teams level on the ice. When we were close to that level, we lost to one of the best goalies in USA Hockey history 1-0. Again I don’t expect a national championship, as a fan obviously I would like one, but realize how difficult it is. There is Clarkson with 13 NCAA Tournament victories, UNH is the only team with more wins that hasn’t won the whole thing. If you build a program that continuously makes the NCAA Tournament which is where our current trajectory is, then it’s a crapshoot once you’re in. If you honestly think that it’s a “minor miracle” we aren’t in the basement every year then I have no more words for this conversation because that’s just a ridiculous comment, Clarkson puts more into their programs then Brown, Dartmouth, Princeton combined. Ask RPI what it’s like to have an AD that couldn’t care less about their only D1 sport.

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      • Agree with cutothefrozen4 100%. Don’t know what endowment has to do with any sort of success. If it did, Harvard and Yale would never lose a game. Fact is Clarkson supports hockey with a full set of scholarships and top tier facilities. There is an endowment for the coaches salary so I guess they could conceivably overpay for a coach. I’m on board with Casey Jones as head coach knowing we could do a lot worse. If Clarkson ever wins a national championship, it won’t be from the pole position. It will be like NC State in 1983 in basketball. Get in the tourney, get hot, get some breaks, and we have a chance.

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        • Originally posted by Josey Wales View Post
          Agree with cutothefrozen4 100%. Don’t know what endowment has to do with any sort of success. If it did, Harvard and Yale would never lose a game. Fact is Clarkson supports hockey with a full set of scholarships and top tier facilities. There is an endowment for the coaches salary so I guess they could conceivably overpay for a coach. I’m on board with Casey Jones as head coach knowing we could do a lot worse. If Clarkson ever wins a national championship, it won’t be from the pole position. It will be like NC State in 1983 in basketball. Get in the tourney, get hot, get some breaks, and we have a chance.
          Please provide what you consider top tier; knowing 60 programs in the NCAA. Top 30 Yes, Top 20 maybe, top 10 NO...
          Last edited by ndlax; 03-01-2020, 06:16 PM.

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          • Top tier is a stretch only because of basketball and football money of the power 5 teams that have college hockey, I know you're strictly talking facilities but in terms of resources some of those power 5 schools put their hockey program on the back burner so Clarkson can compete. The thing is we have to accept Clarkson isn't going to get some sure fire 1st rounder because they'll always choose those top programs that have been on them for years, Alex Campbell is a good example of someone we can get, from Quebec, were on him early and took a chance on him way before he blew up and was on the NHL Draft radar. With that said in regards to this overall argument on whether we have the ability to compete with the nations elite, Clarkson can get the Terrance Amorosa, Devin Brosseau, Josh Dunne, Haralds Egle, Jake Kielly, Nico Sturm, Sheldon Rempal types that are older coming into college and they become great college players and those players can most definitely help us get our first, if everyone had stayed we would have been the preseason favorite, it's not realistic to expect that though because they came to Clarkson and then developed into an NHL prospect.
            Last edited by cutothefrozen4; 03-01-2020, 07:30 PM.

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            • There is only one Power 5 school in the East, Boston College. Power 5 being any school in the ACC, Big 10, SEC, Big 12, or PAC 12. Power 5 is football $$. If you want to add UConn for basketball, ok. Clarkson just took at 19 year old facility, added 30K sq ft with new weight rooms and locker rooms (men and women). I would surely hope such an investment made them “top tier”. The only ECAC arenas that could compete would be Quinnipiac and Colgate. SLU renovated an old arena.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Josey Wales View Post
                There is only one Power 5 school in the East, Boston College. Power 5 being any school in the ACC, Big 10, SEC, Big 12, or PAC 12. Power 5 is football $$. If you want to add UConn for basketball, ok. Clarkson just took at 19 year old facility, added 30K sq ft with new weight rooms and locker rooms (men and women). I would surely hope such an investment made them “top tier”. The only ECAC arenas that could compete would be Quinnipiac and Colgate. SLU renovated an old arena.
                I would think some kids would chose these teams in no specific order as a good place to play for many different reasons

                North Dakota
                Denver
                Arizona
                Cornell
                Michigan
                Wisconsin
                Penn State
                Ohio State
                Boston College
                Boston University
                Minn-Duluth
                Providence
                Notre Dame
                NorthEastern
                Princeton
                Harvard

                The challenge is to attract 3-4yr players that would choose Clarkson over any of those

                Comment


                • Originally posted by cutothefrozen4 View Post

                  I don’t care about where Union is now or who got them there, I know the story, my point was that team was deserving of the National Championship, Clarkson is nowhere near that teams level on the ice. When we were close to that level, we lost to one of the best goalies in USA Hockey history 1-0. Again I don’t expect a national championship, as a fan obviously I would like one, but realize how difficult it is. There is Clarkson with 13 NCAA Tournament victories, UNH is the only team with more wins that hasn’t won the whole thing. If you build a program that continuously makes the NCAA Tournament which is where our current trajectory is, then it’s a crapshoot once you’re in. If you honestly think that it’s a “minor miracle” we aren’t in the basement every year then I have no more words for this conversation because that’s just a ridiculous comment, Clarkson puts more into their programs then Brown, Dartmouth, Princeton combined. Ask RPI what it’s like to have an AD that couldn’t care less about their only D1 sport.
                  When I say “minor miracle”, I don’t mean we’re doing as well as we are by chance, I mean that if every institution put an equal amount of effort in as Clarkson, we would have no chance. Maybe “minor miracle” was the wrong way of putting it, but Clarkson starts at a much lower point.

                  Comment


                  • What exactly would you do if the program had unlimited funds, like from a very successful D-1 football or basketball program or a larger endowment? Buy a better coaching staff, recruit in other geographic areas, new arena, better skates and sticks, offer some easy majors like sports communications or hotel management, cheerleaders? I don't get it. It's all about recruiting top-level talent (and retention of that talent for that matter). Personally I think our forwards need to be bigger. We have one Josh Dunne (and lost Josh Dickinson early), Cornell has 9 or 10 of those size forwards on their roster and they controlled our 5'8" and 5'9" guys (and the entire league this year).

                    By the way, the kid on Cornell who missed the open net was offered a full scholarship at Clarkson after the game. That's a joke.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Josey Wales View Post
                      Agree with cutothefrozen4 100%. Don’t know what endowment has to do with any sort of success. If it did, Harvard and Yale would never lose a game. Fact is Clarkson supports hockey with a full set of scholarships and top tier facilities. There is an endowment for the coaches salary so I guess they could conceivably overpay for a coach. I’m on board with Casey Jones as head coach knowing we could do a lot worse. If Clarkson ever wins a national championship, it won’t be from the pole position. It will be like NC State in 1983 in basketball. Get in the tourney, get hot, get some breaks, and we have a chance.
                      Endowment is a heuristic for donor support that a university could expect. Obviously, it’s not perfect (re: Ivy League), but it’s good for an estimate.

                      You mention Clarkson’s top-tier facilities, but I wonder really how top-tier they are. How do they compare to the facilities that Penn State put in five years ago with it’s $100 million from Pegula? (Mind you, Penn Stare’s athletic department is known for penny-pinching as far as Power 5 schools go and their AD is absolutely awful at raising funds.)

                      As far as coaching goes, I have come to agree with many on this forum that Casey is far from a perfect coach. He probably does not even qualify as a great coach. I am not sure how much better of a coach Clarkson is going to get. I know the position is endowed, but is a matter of public record how much the endowment is for? Is it anywhere near the market rate for the top coaches?

                      We’re going to need to get lucky four games in a row in the NCAA tournament. The #1 team has lost in the first round each of the last two years. Maybe we’ll even win a couple through actually being better. We have a 99.6% chance of making the NCAA tournament according to the College Hockey News Pairwise Probability matrix, and will likely be guaranteed a spot before we play another game.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dave techer View Post
                        What exactly would you do if the program had unlimited funds, like from a very successful D-1 football or basketball program or a larger endowment? Buy a better coaching staff, recruit in other geographic areas, new arena, better skates and sticks, offer some easy majors like sports communications or hotel management, cheerleaders? I don't get it. It's all about recruiting top-level talent (and retention of that talent for that matter). Personally I think our forwards need to be bigger. We have one Josh Dunne (and lost Josh Dickinson early), Cornell has 9 or 10 of those size forwards on their roster and they controlled our 5'8" and 5'9" guys (and the entire league this year).

                        By the way, the kid on Cornell who missed the open net was offered a full scholarship at Clarkson after the game. That's a joke.
                        How do you think you get top-level talent? You have the best coaches and the best facilities. The best players are looking to get into the NHL and many of them will be future Olympians as a large majority of Americans in the NHL go through NCAAs.

                        I am not saying I like any of this, but I have come to realize this as a general truth about college sports now (at least the ones that feed professional leagues/the Olympics).

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hockeycoach View Post

                          I would think some kids would chose these teams in no specific order as a good place to play for many different reasons

                          North Dakota
                          Denver
                          Arizona
                          Cornell
                          Michigan
                          Wisconsin
                          Penn State
                          Ohio State
                          Boston College
                          Boston University
                          Minn-Duluth
                          Providence
                          Notre Dame
                          NorthEastern
                          Princeton
                          Harvard

                          The challenge is to attract 3-4yr players that would choose Clarkson over any of those
                          There are exceptions for everything though, I know a lot of our current group has their family and friends come down most weekends. We have a unique appeal to a lot of GTA, Ottawa, Quebec kids that we cash in on, these kids might not be NHL level players but they could play on most top teams in college hockey. There are hundreds of factors why a recruit selects a school and each situation is different. Think of the process, with advisors becoming a thing so early you have so many people in your ears. I still maintain that with almost every level of developmental hockey getting better, the “blue blood” programs are always going to get who they want, the scraps used to be a true dog fight for the rest, now the scraps sometimes develop into better college hockey players then the more high profile recruit. We’ve won recruiting battles against some of those teams you’ve mentioned. Ultimately only the individual himself can determine what is best for them and there are no perfect programs in college hockey, this is not a money sport like basketball or football.

                          Comment


                          • Our style of offensive hockey that the present coaching staff preaches game in and game out is one which has a 0.000001% chance of ever winning an NCAA when coming in game after game as an underdog. You can not win from behind using the present system. The other thing it does is scare the crap out of any top offensive forwards because it is a system where they can not shine and excel. Sure there were times this year where we actually played attack hockey but the majority of this season, like others 7 - 9 years ago, was dump and chase (or worse, dump and all change), and that will never pressure the opponent and lead to the goals needed to defeat the top teams. And yes, we have too many smalls.

                            Campoli - great knack for scoring ahead of coming to CU - total derailment of that talent.
                            Cooper - perhaps it is his past injuries, but he looked better as a freshman wanting to find seams and get in shooting lanes
                            Jacome - talent and talent for his small frame, but as a junior, he is still 2 goals BELOW his freshman season. That says a lot.
                            Callin - size and some talent, but he's a size 12 foot working in a size 6 shoe system.
                            McLean - well, he's big, but he's D3 talent
                            Collins - too small for DI to make a difference

                            Offensive talent comes to CU for a chance to shine vs. a team where they might be one of 20 watching from the stands. That plus a chance to play in front of family with a 100km drive from up north. I've come to expect nothing but a boring (well said CU2FF) style of hockey, and expect that it will change when he retires or I expire. I can not see any other school picking him from us so get used to a back checking, stuff the D-zone well, and hope for 2 goals style of hockey.

                            Too bad our last really good team that had a chance had to run up against Jonathan Quick...a goalie who we made "stand on his head" and boy did he do that well. Look at that G. Roll recruited class and compare that offensive talent to today's team...yes, we can draw offensive forwards and yes, we can score goals. In the proper system.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by dave techer View Post
                              What exactly would you do if the program had unlimited funds, like from a very successful D-1 football or basketball program or a larger endowment? Buy a better coaching staff, recruit in other geographic areas, new arena, better skates and sticks, offer some easy majors like sports communications or hotel management, cheerleaders? I don't get it. It's all about recruiting top-level talent (and retention of that talent for that matter). Personally I think our forwards need to be bigger. We have one Josh Dunne (and lost Josh Dickinson early), Cornell has 9 or 10 of those size forwards on their roster and they controlled our 5'8" and 5'9" guys (and the entire league this year).

                              By the way, the kid on Cornell who missed the open net was offered a full scholarship at Clarkson after the game. That's a joke.
                              What I would do:
                              Dietitian .. with a dedicated meal plan for the D1 sports teams
                              Sports psychologist
                              a Shooting pad for each team. Not one to share.
                              Heating and cooling tub's need more
                              Hyperbaric chamber
                              Additional video
                              Add to recruiting efforts via planes etc i.e. North Dakota


                              Clarkson is doing very well with the resources it has. Been having personally visited about 40 Prep Schools in New England, Equal amount of Jr teams though out the USA and half that in Canada. Clarkson would fall in the middle of the pack slightly above average in comparing. Thats pretty damn good company. But always room for improvement. ( we are much further ahead of the other D2/D3 teams that are playing "up".

                              Comment


                              • To add to the list, more resources dedicated to an analytics group, completely revamp all social media platforms to grow our brand, continue to give Tad Johnson better resources so he can best do his job, especially with what he focuses on there is new technology coming out every year and we need we need to be up to date in that regard.

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